It shouldn't be this hard [updated]

"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
10/22/2020 at 04:38 • Filed to: Man Yells At Clouds

Update: turns out that we most definitely have the wrong control arm because VW widened the track of the T4 in the last two years of its life. And mine is one of the first of those.

Of course, VW still make the control arm but none are in Australia and they retail in Europe for 170 Euro which is probably about 400 Oz...plus freight and taxes.

So let’s do bushes. Front bush is common to all arms but largely out of stock in Oz at both non genuine suppliers and VW. Not sure what to do yet...still thinking.

Rear bush is unique to this arm but possibly interchangeable...but only VW has them stocked. I could get them from the UK in three weeks (maybe) for $15 each or by next Wednesday for $75 each. I bent over for the latter...

The rest of the parts have arrived except the wheel bearings which have to come from Perth...for the average American, this is like someone living in Boston getting parts from Seattle...by road freight.

So...it's going well!

Not OEM front lower control arms from a VW T4 Transporter

Last week, while replacing the front pads and rotors on the T4, I noted that the rearwards bush on the left side lower control arm was rooted. Upon reflection, I decided to give the job of fixing it to the local shop.

Rather than spending a hundred bucks on new bushes plus another hour or so of time to fit them into the existing control arm, I decided to simply get another complete arm. This may have been my first mistake.

The shop sourced the arm and installed it yesterday. First issue was that the bolt that attached the lower end of the shock and the drop link for the anti roll bar was no longer long enough to do so properly. The replacement control arm has an additional 10mm of shoulder cast into it on the shock side that the OE arm doesn’t have...we can get around that by using a longer bolt. In the meantime, the nut is not fully engaged but it’s secure.

But then...

We put the T4 back on the ground. And the camber on the wheel is clearly ridiculous. The top of the tyre poles out by nearly an inch. We try and take some measurements to compare old and new arms but we are obstructed and also pissed off. Thinking at the time was that the stuffed bush clonking about had made something else go out of whack. So I organised that and bought it home.

Took it to the wheel alignment place this morning and left it with them. Came back to find nothing had changed. It was so out of whack that the alignment gear wouldn’t fit. And that the track rod end was also rooted AND clearly the eccentric nut in the rear bush that controlled caster was in a different position to the other side of the car (yes that’s why we wanted you to redo the alignment, my good man) so there wasn’t much point trying to hard to align anything especially since they clearly didn’t want to try too hard in the first place...[sigh].

Back to the shop. Remove the wheel. Yes, the track end IS fucked and so are the wheel bearings...and the upper ball joint isn’t wonderful either. Great. But can we sort the wonky camber in the meantime?

Why, yes...maybe. The upper ball joint attaches to the hub via an eccentric bush and leaning on the retaining nut demonstrated that minimal torques were involved in retaining the bush instead of the 120 torques required. This bush adjusts for camber. So we did and it made a difference...but not enough of a difference.

We also played with the eccentric bolt on the control arm that controls caster so that it kind of matched the position of the same bolt on the other side in the hope it might do more...err, not really.

Just for giggles we checked the track rod on the right hand side. Yep...it’s fucked too. As is the wheel bearing. And there might be some play in the upper ball joint....

So we loaded the parts cannon and I drove the bloody thing home.

Back in my shed this afternoon, I went back to basics. First thing I checked was the ride height on the front suspension. VW says my T4 should measure 280mm from the centre of the lower shock bolt to the top of the upper shock mounting bolt, on both sides AND the chassis should be dead level to the floor. Suffice to say that it wasn’t. 276 mm on the left and 272 mm on the right was enough to put it at roughly 1 degree down at the front.

So I fixed that by playing with the torsion bar adjusters and that’s now sorted. Since the torsion bars attach to the upper control arms, camber is impacted. But still not by enough.

Now thoroughly pissed off, I dug out the measuring tape and attempted to try and get to grips with the dimensions of this sodding new control arm. Lo and behold I think I have found something. A further dig unearthed my rusty old calipers and confirmed that something is indeed wrong.

It appears that the new arm is roughly 10mm shorter than the original arm. And this missing 10mm is taken from the section between the shock/drop link mount and the tapered socket for the lower ball joint. Which explains why the wheel sits out at the top and in at the bottom...and also explains why (with $600 worth of parts and labour already racked up) my car is still broken and I am really, really annoyed. Dammit!!!

This exercise is going to drag on for another week....

DISCUSSION (25)

pip bip - choose Corrour > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/21/2020 at 06:31

knowing the stupidity of the VW catalogue, you arms are probably for the passenger version not the commercial vehicle, or something as stupid as that.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > pip bip - choose Corrour
10/21/2020 at 07:08

The thought has occurred to me...but so far I've only come up with one part number for everything released after 1998.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/21/2020 at 09:26

First sentence into your third paragraph I knew how this was going to play out. The shop should've stopped there and tried to source a different part. Hell, they should've checked them against each other before even trying to install. I do not like calling out shops, but in this case, they absolutely screwed up. And the fact they didn't immediately realize it and either give you a loaner/rental/put the old parts back on, makes me wonder about their competence. If I tried that shit I'd be fired immediately, and I'm so far from the hot seat I might as well be sitting on Santa's stoop.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
10/21/2020 at 16:38

Yeah I don’t disagree but things in rural Australia work a little differently. Far more casual and the mechanic owns the shop so he’s hard to sack . Plus parts support for middle aged Volkswagen’s is both spotty and expensive but, most of all, a long way from here .

S ourcing a new part (that may be no different) is not without complications of fr ei ght, time and supplier indifference . The supplier of the control arm said “...but we’ve sold heaps of these with no issues so I don’t see what good me measuring another one will do? “ by way of example. In other words, “ it’s not my fault” .

There’s no doubt that Old Mate stuffed up by not doing the comparison properly whilst both parts were off the car (he just did a quick layover comparison) and he knows it . The wheel bearing is on me because I knew beforehand it might be an issue and didn’t remember to say anything and no-one thought to check the track rods...

This one is partially on me I reckon simply because the best solution would have been to replace the bushes instead of replacing the arm...I just didn’t want the car being off the road that long whilst waiting for the cheaper but top quality parts to be freighted from the UK....

Rufant > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 01:40

Have you tried seeing if any Toyota parts will fit?

(poke)

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Rufant
10/22/2020 at 04:30

Ha...the mechanic also happens to have a diesel Prado in the shop with corroded injectors and a dead injector pump (again, apparently ). The pintle from one injector has fallen into the head...and the parts bill is over three thousand dollars so far...so I’m feeling somewhat vindicated.

pip bip - choose Corrour > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 04:56

at least you know the reason why it was wrong now.

shame no one has the parts ready to go though, mind you i’m not surprised no one has the parts either.

Jb boin > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 05:30

I don’t know about this particular situation but it might also be possible to replace the other parts around (and on the other side as well) to make it like a late version with a wider track as it might be an upgrade.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > pip bip - choose Corrour
10/22/2020 at 05:36

#truth

#volkswagen

#meneither

As the parts interpreter said today...I thought they'd all broken years ago!

pip bip - choose Corrour > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 05:41

that’s never a good sign from the parts interpreter.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Jb boin
10/22/2020 at 05:44

This IS the wide track version...which is why few non-genuine parts are available. On the other hand, VW Classic Parts are AMAZING in that I can get the parts but HORRIFYING as to how much they might cost me. But, in the back of my mind, is the knowledge that a new VW T6.5 dual cab 4Motion DSG will set me back AU$65,000 and, if purchased, will depreciate like a punctured balloon.

pip bip - choose Corrour > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 06:03

DSG? yeah, nah.....

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > pip bip - choose Corrour
10/22/2020 at 06:09

Part of me appreciates the honesty of indifference...

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > pip bip - choose Corrour
10/22/2020 at 06:10

You have chosen...wisely.

pip bip - choose Corrour > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 06:16

whenever trade customer ring to get parts fro a captiva or cruze, i tell them to burn them.

Jb boin > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 06:28

My bad, i did read wrong :)

M ost of the time, the VW chassis parts are made by Lemförder so if it’s available and cheaper than the VW ( Classic) part , go for it.

Nom De Plume > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 10:06

Unmistakable signs to sell a vehicle

VincentMalamute-Kim > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 12:20

My initial response was “this is why I try to do everything myself”.

I would’ve like the mechanic to have noticed the difference a nd to have known about the running change in the part but it’s hard to blame him for such esoteric knowledge.

I know I wouldn’t have measured the parts so exactly. The only benefit of having done it myself would be that the angst would be all directed at me.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > VincentMalamute-Kim
10/22/2020 at 16:27

This is the right take. Even if I'd done this job myself...I'd have likely ended up in the same position due to the same assumptions.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Nom De Plume
10/22/2020 at 16:29

And then what?

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Jb boin
10/22/2020 at 16:42

It might be cheaper to get Lemförder stuff via ZF Australia but I can't order direct from them and there's no guarantee that they'll stock the components either...but I'll have a squiz anyway.

Nom De Plume > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 19:12

Have a willing and SERVICEABLE replacement lined up.

S ounds like it won’t fail to be issue ridden and increasingly hard to live with. Suggestion to end personal suffering isn’t so far out of line.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Nom De Plume
10/22/2020 at 19:37

Oh we have serviceable alternatives to hand already in the form of M’ladys car and the farm ute so the inconvenience is not as much as I make it sound.

The complete lack of affordable and compelling alternatives to a dual cab chassis AWD VW Transporter is a factor telling against its replacement.

Jayvincent > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/22/2020 at 19:54

try https://www.pelicanparts.com/ for your european car parts needs, no idea how they will gouge you on shipping but they seem to have about anything you ever want in stock and cheaper than elsewhere

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Jayvincent
10/22/2020 at 21:58

Thanks. It's not just the shipping cost, it's also the time. Even a small parcel can take 2-3 weeks getting from Europe and North America can be even worse - M'lady waited 5 weeks for some shirts from Colorado to get down here. It's a long time to wait for car parts....